[sunshinegirl]

Jesus thats rough Emms. I feel grossed out after reading that I actually want to vomit hearing what they did to you. fucking dicks.

[Emms]

Sorry SG, I didn't mean to upset you. I should have put a trigger warning before that. But yes, they were fucking dicks, all of them, even my dad who I loved and who was the only bit of sanity in my life. If only he'd grown a pair of balls he could have got me away from all that crap.

I had a pretty sick life, but there's those who had worse. At least my main suffering is over now and the way I look at it is, nothng much worse can happen and if I can survive what I have, then nothing or no one can destroy me or make me suffer so much again.

[sunshinegirl]

Hey Emms, respectfully I want to let you know that its not your responsibility if I feel like vomiting or angry or sad or whatever emotion comes to me - after reading something truly wrong. I relate because it reminds of my childhood. I want to honour that feeling inside of me. I don't see that you caused it in anyway. I am sorry that you had to go through that. I am sorry that I had to go through it too and all the others that post here.

[sunshinegirl]

I have remembered something about my mother.. its to do with the feeling that I think she is killing me.. I think I have written about it before. But I get this strong sensation that she is killing me and it rocks my very core. The feeling of horror at this act is very strong. Well I guess it would be strong I mean who wants to be killed. Dying is something else but having someone commit a violent act against one is really threatening and different from dying. Its like an assault on the senses.

Today has been one of those high edgy days where the anxiety is just around the corner lurking ... waiting to jump out at me. I just feel confused, anxious and indicisive. I felt angry at sometimes too. Went for a walk but I am not sure that helped. Talked to a friend and that seemed to help. I felt so confused at who I am and where I was, what I was doing and how everything was happening around me. I managed to feel ok by wearing my headphones too. Oh and well patting a cat in the street. Strange but not unfamiliar feeling and sensations today. I was easily overwhelmed by things.. my thoughts kinda raced along the lines of... oh you'lll never be able to do that, what are you doing that for again... it was a fucking nightmare actually... I had to talk to myself before I got really worked up... I spoke to myself like this: now we'll just deal with one thing at a time so its not so overwhelming.. then came the old thoughts - well how are you going to deal with this kind of stress when you have a fulltime job... you'll never be able to keep a calm and kind manner with the amount of stress you will find in your job... god its a fucking nightmare to have to deal with this endless stream of shit thoughts... I just spoke kindly to myself... but these thoughts happen without my even knowing it... no wonder I like talking to other people no matter how much I dislike them esp. if it helps me get out of these fucking stream of negative thoughts... they seem so powerful and overwhelming too... its almost like my life is a distraction from them.. sometimes I don't even hear them they by pass my conscious mind and affect my emotional mind.. so I end up feeling like shit but don't know why... is that possible I wonder....?Is it possible that thoughts can bypass the conscious mind and affect the emotional mind. Jesus thats powerful stuff if thats how it works. Words that we give to others and ourselves are very powerful for me then.

[Emms]

Oh yes, SG, it's possible all right. When are thoughts or memories are so painful that our present conscious mind can't cope with them, we block them out, but they are still there, hidden in a little corner of our brain somewhere, in a little pocket. And cos thoughts and feelings aren't the same thing, the 'thought's' we have locked away still reach our feelings, but subconsciously and that still makes us feel like shit. We just don't know why at the time.

At some time the thoughts will break through, but not until part of our conscious knows we're ready. I can say this cos I've been there and done that, many times.

[sunshinegirl]

hell what a curse.

[sunshinegirl]

oh god... I have this feeling that I want to forgive my mother... I cannot believe that I am saying this I just cannot believe it really... I felt that her behaviour was beyond forgivenesss... I don't want to talk to her and say I forgive you... nah I believe that I have done the right thing not talk to her .. Well actually I think I am going back on that one too.. I think that I am ready to start talking to her again... but then I just don't see anyway forward with the relationship really... But I want to leave the door open for communications is what I mean.... but she is really self centred and i don't like it... hummm maybe I am not ready to open the doors for communication with her... but I am ready to forgive her.. I jsut want to move on from the hurt that she has caused me..

I always justified what she did to me thinking that there were no social services at that time to intervene and help people in her situation - but I was looking at a magazine that she would have read at the time and it had abuse syndrome of the child advertisements all over the pages and I was thinking god I have been making excuses for something that she did to me that was wrong....

I often think too that she was very young and inexperienced in raising children, she was a solo mother, her own mothering experiences had left her damaged, she possibly had a mental illness, .... what else.. she had a violent partner to content with, but then I think that the reality is is that she is not a very nice person, shes argumentative, she would compare herself to me, she would compare me to people she hated, she would constantly belittle me, she was controlling, she would yell at me constantly about rubbish, she would hit me when she was angry she was very authoritative, she made some bad decisions about my welfare, she exposed me to massage parlours, pornography, she left me alone for hours on end at night without food, she would dissappear for hours and I wouldn't know where she was, I don't like the feeling of being alone - I mean I like to be alone but not apart from people... for e.g. where I live in the hostel others are around but I can be alone in my room... so the signs of human life abound but I can take it or leave it... I was raised to be a cowering wreck by her... shes also very judgmental, its like everybody else is doing something to her to make her life difficult and awful. She'd have rage attacks against other people because she hated them so much...
all this on top of the sex abuse which I am not sure who knew about it or not...

[Emms]

SG, you can still forgive your mother if you want to but that doesn't mean you have to let her back into your life. You don't have to forgive but there's nothing to say you shouldn't do it either.

The way I like to look at it with my mother is that she was abused too, she had a terrible life and was from a very strange family where there was a lot of inbreeding too. She was brought up by a very controlling and weird couple herself and she was badly damaged, therefore she ended up a sociapath herself. She never grew up cos he was never allowed to and she was totally dependant on other ppl, just used to manipulate and lie to get her own way cos she knew no other way to do it. She had to lie to her parents so she could have any kind of life at all and also although she was a very good actress, she was NOT a nice person at all. So I can't forgive her and I did shut her out of my life for a long time, before finally making up again and only to have her still try to hurt me. But although I can't and WON'T forgive her, I can accept and understand why she was as she was, if that makes sense to anyone. I accept that she was evil in many ways, but only because of her background. Thing is, she did have a chioce, she wasn't actually mentally ill, just had this kind of personality disorder but she could have behaved better had she really wanted to. I had a bad background too and I didn't turn out that way, but that's cos I got away from it, I left home, she never did, not even when she married. You'll probably always miss her in a way cos I did when I cut off from my mother. But by the time we made up again she coulnd't hurt me so much cos I'd actually stopped loving her. So it's up to you, perhaps the time will come when you'll be ready to let her back into your life, but make sure she can't hurt you again and if she does, for God's sake, get her out of it again.

[sunshinegirl]

yep I think I would get hurt thats why I don't want to resume communications with her.. i just don't trust the woman!

but I do feel a strong need to forgive her... whatever that means to me.. I will explore this... somewhere some how...

I wonder what this forgiveness would look like I don't think that it would in the form of making excuses for what happened. thats what i have done before and it doesn't feel like that is forgivenesss. ... I guess forgiveness for me would look like letting go of it .... letting go of all the heritage of abuse..

I am gonna start a new thread titled : "letting go of the heritage of abuse"

thanks for the chat emms

[sunshinegirl]

yeah right so after all that wanting to forgive stuff i actually sent an email off to my aunty that I used to get so annoyed at.

She was pretty controlling in my life telling me off. I remember this one time I had said something in front of other people that she did not like. She was very into keeping up appearances in front of other people. She had her own personal business that she would like kept to private and did not want other people to know about. I can't remember what I had said but it pissed her off and she took me aside into another room, hidden secrets - so typical in our family - , and got really vicious I think I remember crying afterwards because I got really frightened. She threatened me not to speak about something in front of people and her face was all distorted with anger when she did this and it was scary for me. and then when she finished she went back into party mode putting on a " face " for others. Jesuuuus! I can't imagine what kind of hidious environment that my poor child lived in.. this was one of the features of the social landscape though. masked faces, hidden secrets... suppressed emotions.... fear...

She did a couple of other things that I remember that I feel angry about... Oh thats right she told me a story of how I was a young child and she observed me doing something that she had told me not to do.. She had told me not to touch these books - so I went over and started to touch the books but really slowly and in front of her like I was letting her know this I am cleverer than you because I can control you by touching this book... or some shit... I cannot remember what was the moral of this story that she was telling me but I remember feeling angry that she was telling me this story as if it was indicative of something awful about me... awful or wrong or contrary or something that she didn't like about me..

There was another story that she would tell me about how my mother went to hospital and I was under 5yrs and didn't understand what was going on and my mother had had an ectopic (sp?) pregnancy and was ill and I went and said "wheres my little brother?" to her when she was in hospital after being ill... I felt angry when she told me this story.. I felt like she was holding me responsible for my past poor behaviour as a child - she told me this story when I was in my thirties.!!

There were a few other things that happened too. Oh thats right like the time I visited her and then wanted to walk home ( I regularly walk home in the dark - I know how to keep myself safe so I am not afraid to walk home at night - I don't do it if I feel unsafe) In fact I enjoy walking at night its interesting and a different environs at night. Things change with the light its nice. Anyways... I wanted to walk home and she wouldn't take no for an answer. I felt trapped in her house and then made a bolt for the door...and I ran through the neighbourhood over fences and such in sheer terror trying to get away from her.. I felt spooked out and felt that staying with her was more terrifying than walking home at night... And she lived with her friend - whose dead now RIP aunties friend - and she got her friend to drive her car after me as I tried to run away from them and then they cornered me and it was so humiliating and they cornered me and got me to get into the car and then took me home I was so upset and afraid and crying... God I felt so insane growing up with these people around me... I would be crying and/or angry and trapped and they would treat me like an animal.. they wouldn't treat me like I had feelings and it was ok to have feelings... jesus no wonder I thought I was insane! I was so different from the people around me..

[sunshinegirl]

wow what an outpouring today... just from deciding to forgive my mother but then forgiving my aunty in an email instead? well if it works it works... shes alot safer to talk to than my mother thats for sure...

[Emms]

Sg, after having scary crazies in your childhood like that it's a wonder you're sane! But believe me, you are.

I had similar experiences, brought up by a bunch of loonies. No wonder I didn't know how to relate to other children and later to other adults. I had a mother who swung from evil manipulative liar to loving mother and then she'd change again into a little child living a fantasy world all the time. She used to beat me and make me ill on purpose. I reckon she had Munchousens (sp?) by proxy and she used to fake her own illness too. But she would change at times to a kind and loving woman who wanted to baby me and shower me with gifts and false affection. She also watched her own father molest me and called me a liar when I tried to get her to make him stop doing it. My grandmother totally controlled the family and she was totally crazy, she lived in the past and never left the house. Lived in a complete fantasy and I was her little doll to play with and to dress up like a little Victorian child, someone to be mocked in school.

So I know how it must feel for you. You still want a family, don't you? I did and still do but I've accepted now that I don't have one. I can reach out to my husband, occasionally my daughter and if I'm really stuck there's always a women's group I can ask for some advice, but that's a last resort cos the best person Ic an reach out to is myself.

It takes a while to learn to do that though, SG, but you will. If you want to forgive your aunt, then fair enough. Just be very careful that you're not just reaching out cos you feel you need someone, you can get hurt again if you get too close to these ppl again so be on the watch out, be careful and good luck. I really would like it to work for you so you could have a relationship of some kind with your aunt, but remember that ppl like these don't cahnge. We have to keep ahead of them, if you know what I mean, so watch her and take care.

[sunshinegirl]

Emms I really appreaciate what you have to say.
It feels really important to me to let you know that I think you've misunderstood me.
I know I can't have the family that I wanted but I grieve not having the family I wanted when I was a child.

I related to the topsy turvy weirdness of family members being nice one minute acidic the next. I found it very confusing as a child and really scary.

[sunshinegirl]

I feel uncertain about it all. I am in new territory -its unfamiliar.

There are elements of assurance, and highs, but it feels kinda unfamiliar and uncertain. I have moments where I don't think I can trust myself or what is happening. I have been spending alot of time desiring to hide under covers and go and do that when I can - with my comforts such as toys, pillows, music, movies and books. I find I need alot of sleep and even then I am having strange dreams. I desire to be alone alot too. Not what I would have expected... but its the truth.

[sunshinegirl]

oh emms.. i just read this comment you made about a comment I made and it made me feel like crying in a good way ..

you wrote " I doubt if I'll ever learn to love myself when I feel like a failure" I really relate to this in some far-out way.. its just so sweet and true... I think it goes for me too.. I don't think I can love myself when I feel like a failure either... It really touched my heart in a way that I can't explain...its bittersweet and tender and honest... awww... break out the tissues and get a warm cat on my lap pronto!