remembering

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

Take it easy detach... if you eventually do recover any lost memories in the process you can work thro those too, it just takes time. Its hard no matter what the abuse was, the more there is the harder it is im sure, but there's nothing that can't be fixed..eventually. lol it does take time. I've been here about 7 months now, and am no where close to done but can def tell a difference so It DOES get better. be safe detach, we're all here whenever you want to talk

detach · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 96

littleb,
thanks for your reply... Yeah, my favorite thing regarding the abuse from my mother was when most of the time she didn't remember because she was drunk. No validation there! She'd just make that her excuse EVERY flippin' time like "Well, I was drunk and I don't remember that. Are you sure that's what I said or did?". Like the fact that SHE doesn't remember excuses it all away. When I was a child I didn't even know what to say to that! As an adult, I know she's full of it and she's responsible whether she was drunk or not, damn it! I so mad and angry right now it's disgusting!!!

Emms · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 1556 Location: West Midlands UK

Abusers make excuses for themselves, doesn't matter what kind of abuse it is. your mother abused you, whether she can remember it or not doesn't make it any better for you. So you still need the same time and space to deal with it. It really does take years, I'm 57 and still have mental scars from it so don't expect miricles, but it DOES get better, I promise you it does. My mother wasn't always drunk when she treated me badly, she just denied it all and lied about it, either that or persuaded herself it didn't happen cos nothing could ever be her fault. Whatever, it wasn't YOUR fault, that's for sure. So good luck and keep working at it.

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

my dad was the same way. My dad was in vietnam, n he was one of those ppl that should have been treated for ptsd and wasn't, so he self medicated using whatever he could find. Not an excuse for his dumb ass....he shouldn't have ever brought harm to any of us, and having done so to not just my family but his previous family...he should have gone and got help. It should have NEVER progressesd as far as it did. Anyways, alcohol was a big one for him, and he still drinks even now that he's on meds for all of it, so its still a big issue for him.

He would come home n beat my mom or us, then leave, n when he was confronted about it he would cry n say he didn't remember, he didn't "mean to". But, ptsd aside, there was quite a few times i know it was him losing his temper, not psychin out on us, there was a big diff from when dad had flsh backs to when dad was just drunk n pissed off....more often than not he was just drunk n pissed off. He'd pull the whole woe-is-me crap when my mom even suggested that she might leave him. He'd threaten her with death/physical force if his "begging n pleading" didn't work....nice guy huh? Still ...somewhere, some part of me wants to forgive him, pat him on the head n say "u poor little thing", for what he's been thro. Maybe i should, maybe i shouldn't haven't yet come to that conclusion. What I know is, from the time i was born until I was 9 all he ever did was yell n hit all of us, made our lives a living hell, then he left.....and I never heard from him again. He got my brothers when we ended up evicted and homeless...i refused to go which still makes me feel bad to this day, cuz i was too scared, and it meant i couldn't protect my brothers...but being that my mom then got with a abusive online sexual predator/pedo and stayed with him for 7-8 years after that....i guess i should consider them lucky to have been with my dad.... maybe... i dont know either way you look its pretty f***ed. The second, my sexual abuser, my moms second abuser, he'd do the same shit too. He'd do something and then "not remember" and because he didn't "remember" we (more like "I") was a liar....obviously...Anyways, when my dad got my brothers (i was 10, so we had only been out on our own for a year), i literally never heard from that old bastard ever again. Not a call, not a letter, not a f**k you note....nothing. And when i did finally end up talkin to him, for the first time in 9-10 years, he blamed the fact that we hadn't talked on me..........he said "he'd try" and to this day he's not called me once... so.. whatever

Abusers are sick manipulative ppl...they really do have an irreversible problem. They can't be fixed. No one should ever bring harm to a child, a child can't protect itself, and likewise, no parent should ever just stand by while THEIR child is being abused. Its not right, why even have children?????? (??????) But..... it happens, as we know too well

Its unfair we suffer the aftermath of it all, after having to suffer with it all to begin with, but the one thing that makes me happy, keeps me going, is knowing i WILL NEVER be like they were. I can be happy, n heal from all this, and even tho nothing will ever take what happened away, I can survive, recover, and live a good meaningful life unlike they (any abuser) ever could. We can have meaningful relationships, and experience real love, which i seriously doubt they could ever do. WE are MUCH stronger than they are.

detach · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 96

*** i literally never heard from that old bastard ever again. Not a call, not a letter, not a f**k you note....nothing. And when i did finally end up talkin to him, for the first time in 9-10 years, he blamed the fact that we hadn't talked on me..........he said "he'd try" and to this day he's not called me once... so.. whatever ****

I'm sorry for your pain and suffering, it is just sooooo hard. some days are worse then others for me. Some days I don't think about it alot if I have alot going on, but on days like today, it's here and very present for me today.

Your father is horrible!!! My narcissistic father has called me 2 times in 21 years (both times because he WANTED something), so I know kinda what you feel. Seems like your probably better off without his sorry ass to be honest, but I know it still hurts!...alot

Emms · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 1556 Location: West Midlands UK

Even if some of these ppl who treated us badly did have their reasons, like untreated PTSD or alcoholism, we are still better off without them if they can't make the effoprt to change. My mother didn't even have that excuse, she did drink but she was stone cold sober most times when she was being a bitch to me and to my dad. She knew exactly what she was doing and do did her father who sexually abused me, but he did drink and gamble too. They don't derserve any forgiveness and those who perhaps do have a few excuses still don't deserve our love and forgiveness unless they actually try at some point to do something about things.

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

Right, because regardless of whatever excuse they have, they know at some point they're doing or have done something that was wrong. If they don't choose to stop it, and in fact KEEP doing it, refusing to get help, refusind to change, then there is no point in wasting your time, love, n effort on it.

And thats so easy to say but it still gets me, on my dad, and my mom for that matter, I want to say "well...but circumstance x made them do y", in my mind i try in make it so that it was "out of their control" and that takes the blame off of them so I can pretend I have a "loving family" or atleast a "not so bad family", (which ultimately some piece of me still wants to believe even against the facts) but the REAL issue is, BECAUSE that takes the blame off them, it puts the blame ON me. It doesn't necessarily look like it at first glance, (which is why it took me a while to realize it) cuz im not straight out saying "I caused them to do x" but suddenly, I'm the bad daughter for talking bad about her parents, for blaming them for "things they can't fix", for feeling badly towards my parents, as if *I should be ashamed* of myself for speaking the truth. And the truth of it is they damned well could have put a stop to it, both of them, but they didn't........so who's fault is that? I was a CHILD, THEY were the PARENTS, if anyone had control it WAS THEM, not circumstance, and certainly not me. I can, and sometimes I do, sit here all day and make excuses for my parents. And then i sit back n wonder why I feel so bad about myself? And i do, when i sit here n actually say nice things about my mom or my dad (and I have a few times) when i sit back I IMMEDIATELY feel bad about myself. But i guess a piece of my mind is still so programmed to trying to make what my parents do/did as "right", and like i said, a piece of me still wants very badly to have a loving caring family. I dont want to believe that my parents "just didn't care" whether they did or not. And honestly, if they cared more for me than they did themselves n whatever petty fetish/drug that got their rocks off, a LOT of what happened to me wouldn't have happened. And whether that sentence makes me cringe every time i read it or not.....thats the truth. I can't argue it in ANY situation I can think of (and trust me, as i sit here writing this I've tried to think of as many situations as i can possible muster, before writing and deciding to post that last sentenance)

True enough, shit happens, but how you deal with it is still your responsibility, if you'd rather let it hurt a child, than be uncomfortable yourself, then you should be held responsible for that hurt because the child doesnt have a choice.

If I could, I would take my family, n take all the bad things away, n we'd all live together, n it would be a normal loving caring family. If I could change who my parents were, you know, keeping the same parents, just changing how they are, how they act, what kind of ppl they are, I would. What kid doesn't want their parents to love them, protect them, be there for them? If I could change my whole life so that everyone "got along n played nice n loved each other" me n about a million other abused kids im sure would do it in a heart beat. BUT I know (now anyways) that i can't. Lol I forget sometimes, well, and i think sometimes, its just more natural for me to do that. Taking the blame off them makes it so that I don't have to face my real feelings. Saying "oh u didn't mean it" is easier than saying "why did you let so n so do x" or "why did YOU do x?" n then dealing with all the emotions that come with those questions. So sitting here talking about how they "didn't really mean for it to happen" doesnt do me a damned bit of good, cuz altho im sure there are somethings in life they didn't mean to happen, they sure as hell didn't put any effort into preventing it from occuring, or stopping it from occuring once it started. That goes for any and all of the abuse.

That actually made me feel really good, writing ALL that down. Lol

Emms · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 1556 Location: West Midlands UK

"If I could, I would take my family, n take all the bad things away, n we'd all live together, n it would be a normal loving caring family. If I could change who my parents were, you know, keeping the same parents, just changing how they are, how they act, what kind of ppl they are, I would."

You wouldn't believe the times I've thought about that. These days I don't bother so much though, it's gone too far now and I just don't feel that my mother, even though I know her childhood was awful and she was abused as well, was a mother at all. She couldn't have been a mother to a rat let alone a child. I've been through those feelings though, wishing I could have taken the bad stuff away and had the loving family I wanted. But what's done is done, we can't change it. Pity, but we can't. Thing is, I don't care how bad our lives have been, there are things that we CAN stop doing if we really want to. I had to change some things about my behaviour and it wasn't easy, I was copying teh behaviour I'd learned from my looney family and also there was stuff I did to help me survive, but I had to learn to stop, to take responsability for my own life, we all have to do that in the end. No one MAKES us do things, we choose to do them and so we can choose to stop. You woulnd't harm your kids, littleb, you wouldn't do the stuff your parents and your abuser did, so if you can behave properly, after the life you had, then they could have too.

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

I didn't realize thats how i was for a while, and i know i'll stilll, unwillingly, end up doing it anyways. Letting my mind slip into thinking "its not their fault" True, there are some things they can't/couldn't have changed but those things weren't even the things that really *ever* bothered me anyways! What bothered me was the various forms of abuse, abandonment and neglect, not the circumstance. But bcuz I don't want it to be their fault, i dont want them to intentionally be the way they are, i make it the rest of the worlds fault, i make it circumstancial and really I'm just lying to myself. Or I was anyways. Im finding its hard to say tho "i wont do that again", cuz i do it without thinking about it...atleast i know im doing it tho, so i can catch myself.

Just weird cuz you see things n hear things n read things about denial, and i cant count the times ive thot "how can they deny that when its so obvious?", then you come to find our your still knee-deep in your own o-so-obvious denials. AND about the time you think you got it, you end up admitting more that you did-but-didn't-know.

your right tho, i would never hurt my own, or anyone elses, children. Ever. I wouldnt hurt anything or atleast not intentionally, and i certainly wouldn't do it because "that what i grew up learning". No excuse. I wouldn't hurt anyone because of a change in situation or circumstance either.......and if i can say that i wouldn't do it, and i hold myself responsible for it, they (the rents) should have been able to have done the same. I know saying it and living it are much harder....still I can say beyond a doubt that I would never bring harm to anyone or anything intentionally, and I sure as hell wouldn't stand aside while someone else hurt those I love either.

I think im struggling mainly with my right to be mad at my mom. I am mad at her. Its even hard to carry on conversation with her right now, n i kno she can tell im atleast distant just not why.

I think too much

I really do

I empathize TOO well, esp with my mom, I dont want her to hurt anymore than she does already. All that aside, I'm still mad at her, and I want to tell her, n yell a bit, n just "Be mad" but i feel like i cant "because she's sick, because she's been through a lot, because the boys are giving her trouble, because my problems arent "that bad" ", because im good at making excuses for her......really

How to be mad at the passive parent...could prolly write a book on just that! im sure you were mad with ur dad right? Didn't want to be but did all at the same time? Like you dont want to because you know they're the best you've got as far as family goes, all you've got, but you want to be mad cuz well... you deserve to be mad?

Conflicted, i guess is how this is going. I've always fought against everyone else to "protect" my mom, so comming to be mad at her when my gut now seems to be to protect her doesn't really work out so well. Just leaves me fighting with myself.

AND when i say "ok mom had her flaws here's what they are:" I do flip n start treating my other parent like they're the faultless one. Its like I can't talk bad about one without trying (no matter how untrue or pathetic) to praise the other. Like I have to be able to praise atleast one of them to feel ok about talking bad about the other. I shouldn't feel bad for talking about anything that is the truth, its not my fault they made the decisions they did...but i still do it.

ahhh well....crap huh? I dont know, am sure I'll get over it/get it out/figure it out....Lol eventually.

Emms · Joined: 14 Apr 2009 Posts: 1556 Location: West Midlands UK

I know. I'm just the same with my dad but I'll always be mad with him and will never forgive him, but that doesn't stop me loving him.

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

yea, i wont stop loving my mom for it, just gets confusing ya kno? Trying to figure it all out, why it happened, why it wasn't stopped, why our non-abusive parents couldn't see it....guess thats the same for all of us tho huh? Just a lot of questions really, a lot of unknowns. I hate that i learned to "protect myself" so well that i can't really say for sure what i feel or know any more... it is getting better, but damnit its confusing!!

Changing is hard. Lol but atleast we can change.

Oooook then...wow, am incredibly emotional today. lol Just up n down all over the place. Gonna go for now, maybe on later

detach · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 96

******Trying to figure it all out, why it happened, why it wasn't stopped, why our non-abusive parents couldn't see it....guess thats the same for all of us tho huh?******

I regards to the abuse perpetrated by my alcoholic mom. I'm VERY angry that my dad and step mom allowed her to keep every weekend visitation w/ me!...oh sure she wasn't blastered every time, but come on?? they never knew if she was going to take us (me and my sister) then get wasted while we were there with her, which happened often enough.

I wasn't old enough to have a voice, plus she's a master manipulator and would make me feel bad if I didn't want to see her. But my parents (N dad and step mom) should have stepped in, put their foot down and layed down the law ... so to speak....pisses me off! But, yeh, guess we all have someone we could blame, but when it comes down to it, it was the abusers themselves that are to blame.

detach

littleb · Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 817

oh certainly, and before i started comming here n talking i would have NEVER put ANY of what happend to me on my mom like ive been. Like I said, i've always had to defend for my mom, she was the only one that I had really, for a long time. But now its that im at a point where I've realized, I blame myself for a lot of what happened to me, or i did i guess, i blamed myself beause i've always held myself responsible for everyone else including me. I was the only one I could count on and in a way i felt like i failed at that too, because i have been hurt like i have. I feel like "i should have done something more" ya kno? And i feel that way about me, my mom and my brothers...so i feel i failed everyone. But that wasn't my responsibility, ever, even tho i felt that it was. Anyways, now breaking that thought, trying to put the blame where it really should be, is hard for me. It wasn't my responsibility to protect my mom, or my brothers, technically i shouldn't have even had to been responsible for myself at that age but i was. The fact that i've done what is far more than what should be expected of any child, but making myself feel that way is a diff story.

I struggle a lot with, "why couldn't i've just run away? not let it happen to me over n over again?" And I feel like when i tell my story others feel the same, like "its her fault cuz she could have gone to her other parent or ran away if it was that bad", i feel its how everyone see's it (so am still, further, putting blame on myself) and I know it was because I was afraid to leave my mom alone with "him", afraid of what he'd do to her, and afraid of what she'd allow him to do. I felt like without me, he would've seriously harm to her and I felt like she would fall to pieces without me, cuz she wasn't exactly "in one piece" with me anyways. She had lost my brothers in a custody battle (because we had been homeless and they did an investigation and didn't think "the man she was with was suitable to have children around", and they were right, boy were they right, more right than they or anyone else knew, but he was one of the biggest reasons my mom lost my brothers) so i was the only child out of 4 she had left, and i saw it break her heart when the courts ruled that my brothers stay with my (incredibly insane mind you) father. AND I saw her being abused, daily, again, by this guy.

I couldn't leave her, even tho its all i ever dreamed of was getting away, running away, i couldnt leave her cuz she couldnt stand for herself, and i dont think still, that she can stand without me. If she's in a troubled spot, or is having problems getting the boys to do things, she' calls me. If she has bad dreams or problems at work or whatever, she calls me. Sometimes she does take my advice, most times she doesnt, and i think its cuz she see's me as a "child" still, n that i dont really "know", and lol i guess i am, but generally....im right, atleast where it comes to dealing with her problems are concerned. Saying that isn't something that makes me proud either, cuz i kno i make a lot of stupid choices personally, but with her its different. I dont care about "my best interest" like i care about hers, or anyone elses for that matter. .... n thats a big problem for me, its something that i need to and am trying to change. You can't find happiness with anyone until you can find it with yourself, and THATS something i truly struggle with. And its something that scares me too, cuz i dont want to use ppl to be happy, and its not like i "use" them in a sense that i make them do what i want, but it seems very hard for me to be happy, all on my own. Like I can't have fun unless im with someone else who's draggin me through it, lol making me go out n do things n have fun. Well i guess it kinda links into the other problem, bout doing things for myself. i feel "selfish" and dont want to do things for me, but if someone is doing something for themselves n wants to involve me....that sort of thing. I like being alone dont get me wrong, i like my me time, but my me time is limited to me sitting at the house with my dogs, i feel like i can't go out n do things purely for me cuz it makes me feel selfish, i feel like i dont deserve to treat myself well.....AND THAT DEEFINETLY needs to stop, cuz i deserve to be happy just like everyone else, i deserve to do things for me everyonce in a while, there's nothing selfish about that (its just CHANGING those auto-triggered thots ya kno?)

But i am getting better, and im sure i'll make it, i know i will, one day i will be better. Maybe not fully, its not like you can ever make it (the past) just dissapear, but i'll be as able to do for me as i am able to do for others, and hopefully more. lol I'll need to make up for lost time haha

detach · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 96

*****he was one of the biggest reasons my mom lost my brothers) so i was the only child out of 4 she had left, and i saw it break her heart when the courts ruled that my brothers stay with my (incredibly insane mind you) father. AND I saw her being abused, daily, again, by this guy. ****

BUT, your mom didn't leave him to get her children back did she?.... But, she was being abused herself and probably couldn't see a way out since she was looking at the world through the eyes of a victim also.

I just think having my children taken away would wake me up to the fact that some serious changes needed to occur. She made her choices though and you shouldn't have to pay for one more day, because of the choices SHE made in her life, ya-know?

My mom is a rip roaring alcoholic and she is doing "nothing" about it....that's her choice, but I'm not going to suffer for her choices anymore.
It hurts and is painful that we aren't speaking, but I got to do what I got to do......

detach · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 96

I guess I'm adding this to my above post...haha
Well, it's 3 am...AGAIN!...UGH! And no, I can't go back to sleep.....

littleb,
I started wondering to myself if I was at all cruel in my above post??? (see the guilt I have myself...) And I didn't mean to be and I'm sorry If me saying "your mom didn't leave did she?" hurt your feelings or anything. Sometimes I can be very...hhmm....direct!